September 8, 2008
Raising the Bar
No, not the television show. Dear Author has already blogged about it, twice even. And, in case you have no clue what I’m talking about, agent Lori Perkins is working with some of her clients on a new e-publishing venture. As in she’s editing and apparently, buying material.
We’ve already done a deal with the Harvey Klinger Agency for one of our launch books.
With the caveat that the lack of information and the vagueness of it all kind of bothers me, I’m totally intrigued with the idea of Ravenous Romance, and here’s why… Will having an agent and a long-time publishing professional at the forefront of this endeavor raise the bar in e-publishing? ( Will more quality e-publishers rise to the top while the more questionable ones fall to the wayside? Is this another huge step in the evolution of original* e-publishing? )
Now, before you get all psycho-cheerleader on me, hear me out. I’m not saying all previous e-publishers suck…or anything else equally as narrow-minded. I started out in e-publishing, and I have my loyalty to it. I also think e-publishing has done a lot to change the face of publshing as we know it, but I’m not dumb and I’m not blind. And while I think we can all agree that questionable books get published by New York every week, I think it’s also safe to say that, by and large, quite a bit of questionable material gets pushed out of the gate in e-publishing as well. Because, well, anyone can set up shop as an epublisher, anyone can call themselves an editor and anyone can call themselves a cover artists, but that doesn’t make it true, or *gulp* wise.
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*I say original as in original release, not e-book versions released by NY publishers.
Will having an agent and a long-time publishing professional at the forefront of this endeavor raise the bar in e-publishing?
Probably not. Big names doesn’t always=quality work. No matter who they are. I’m biased, of course, because also find this decision unsettling. I probably wouldn’t if the agent wasn’t involved. I’d just think, “Oh another e-pub.” It just seems so backdoor dealings to me. Kind of like an Owner of an e-pub, publishing their own books through their business. I know, I know. Those Owners are likely to go through the same editorial wringer it just always leaves me….can’t quite pick the word.
The whole point of my reply is that scammers will still open up fly by night e-presses. The ones already here will make their own business decisions for what works best for their company. Hopefully what works best is providing readers with quality stories.
Due to this pub paying authors upfront will more e-pubs offer authors advances?
But then that could just brings me to another question *branching off from yours* will it change the face of e-publshing? Because once you start paying authors you need to pick them sparingly and will e-pubs stop publishing the “out-of-the-box” romances to print what sells? You know, like Big NYs, which could easily be another post.
MS. Perkins also scouted the realm of ‘Sex and Shoes’ recently on her blog, Amie, so I’m a bit confused as to what horizon she’s actually headed for. I believe you outlined the venture very well: vague.
I dunno, and it depends. BTW, I’ve actually read somewhere that MS. Perkins is co-owner in the venture and not just editing, submitting on behalf of clients.
Ask me this question again, about this particular epress, this time next year. …
It’s been the Monday from Hell. If you comment and dont see it, I’ll release you from moderation as soon as I can :(
Kind of like an Owner of an e-pub, publishing their own books through their business.
I’m going to play devil’s advocate. If an owner hadn’t published her own books, there’d be no EC……I don’t have a problem with this particular scenario because I know both the owners from Cobblestone get the same editing as everyone else.
The whole point of my reply is that scammers will still open up fly by night e-presses.
and authors desperate to get published will sign anything :( Quite a conundrum
Because once you start paying authors you need to pick them sparingly
Not sure if they still do but Samhain used to give a small advance–and L. Perkins said “small advance and huge royalty”. So paying authors is nothing new. However, as far as out-of-the-box books getting published (and again, I’m playing devil’s advocate since I have no way of really knowing)Lori also mentioned cross-genre material. I guess only time will tell but, like you, I’m taking a wait-and-see attitude
Bernard…….she did say Sex and Shoes had been committed to Ravenous. Sounds like she’s working in an editorial position as far as buying material goes.
Samhain still offers a small advance, just FYI, so yes paying authors is nothing new. And I don’t really have a problem with owners as authors unless that situation is abused or goes beyond the normal like a certain epub whose name I’m not going to mention since I’m not affiliated with. But this epub has caused quite a commotion over at DA and Karen Knows Best and it sounds like the owners have many pen names…
I don’t like how vague this venture sounds. And I don’t like the big almost bragging claims their authors are making. I would watch what I say until it’s proven the epub does well. I don’t wish them to fail but I’m definitely taking a stand back and watch what happens kind of attitude too.
I feel like I just rambled. Did I ramble? LOL Did I even make sense?
Karen of course you made sense……..And that epub ur talking about isn’t the only one I’ve heard horror stories about. I, too, don’t wish failure on anyone, but I do wonder how this is going to play out.
I wasn’t saying that her (co)owning the joint was a bad thing, just clarifying that her involvement may be more than editing/submitting on behalf of clients.
The thing that does give me pause is the agenting angle– how can her clients be sure that she’s shopping for the best contracts for them? Or is she more working on behalf of publisher and looking for the best material for them? (yes, I’m aware that she’s said that other (jr?) agents in her office will actually be handling the submission to avoid the whole conflict of interest question, but still… )
Also, I’ve heard a lot of agents won’t even bother with category (Harl/Sil) contracts. There’s not much they can negotiate re the boilerplate and their 15% (in most cases) wouldn’t be worth the effort. I can’t help thinking that ebooks would fall into the same realm (ie, not really needing an agent, and the agent’s 15% not enough to be worth giving up on the authors part, and not worth the effort on the agents part. )
But, again, it’ll be interesting to revisit this subject in a years time.
I have no clue… but sitting back and watching does sound like a good idea
If an owner hadn’t published her own books, there’d be no EC……
True. I’m just the type of person who likes for my business boundaries to be clear. Not saying that EC has done this or any other Owner/Author publisher, but I always question whether or not they started a business because they wanted to start a business or because they started a business to publish their books.
Anyway, for all I know it may be legitimate. *shrug*
FYI just read over at Lustbites that Editor Adam Neville is also a writer. Just throwing that out there.
THough I do see what you mean about Business Boundaries Mel and have seen/heard much talk about agents who are also authors which is a whole ‘nother blog post :)
have seen/heard much talk about agents who are also authors which is a whole ‘nother blog post :)
Which is why I shall leave the topic alone. I don’t want to poke the bear.
Or boob…
I’m also taking a wait-and-see attitude.
Not going for the “this will be the biggest thing ever” claims though. I’m sorry, but I honestly don’t think you can maintain a high level of quality if you’re posting one short story+novel every single day. Yes, you might find enough material, and yes, you might make quite a bit initially. But quality does not equal quantity, and readers are accustomed to erotica now. I think they’re looking for good storylines and characterization to go with the heat, and are probably buying less of the stories that don’t offer more.
(Now, if they prove me wrong, more power to them–it’d be interesting to see how they do it).
The idea as presented is still a little vague, and I’m not sure exactly how it’ll work. Maybe Lori won’t sell her personal clients to this publication.
Maybe the other agents in her house will handle the agenting.
The advance thing (especially with e-books) is irrelevant. I can give you five bucks and say have a good day. The royalties ARE important, and as an author I’d have to think on how much I’m likely to make when they’re publishing a book every day. S’like being a member of the Borg…1 of 365. And e-books offered on a website go by so quickly as it is–not to mention the unlikelihood of gaining name recognition or timely (if any) reviews.
The other thing that makes me itch is the idea of an agent buying material from another agent.
Scratch, scratch…
I really see Ravenous as a much different animal than the other epubs out there. People on the web, DA, Smart Bitches, etc. decry new epubs claiiming the owners are nobodies and have no experience. But when a legitimate agent and a legitimate book packager get together to try this kind of venture, there’s instant suspicion.
I guess I just don’t know what these people want from a new epub. What would satisfy them?
As far as Lori Perkins involvement I don’t see it as a conflict of interest any different than an author who owns and epub and publishes her own stuff. If you’re worried about the idea of MS. Perkins selling her clients books to Ravenous rather than to a traditional publisher, have you looked at the book lengths they are taking?
15K and under and 50K. That’s it. I don’t know any NY publisher that would consider 50K full-length. So I don’t see how MS. Perkins would be diverting these books to Ravenous is some underhanded way. Plus, I would think she’d make more money for her clients and herself selling directly to traditional publishers.
To me, it sounds like she is taking stuff she couldn’t sell and re-editing it with an eye toward Ravenous. I don’t see much wrong with that.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. See what they come up with. Their PR has been pretty good so far and the site looks professional (what they have up there so far).
But when a legitimate agent and a legitimate book packager get together to try this kind of venture, there’s instant suspicion.
AGREED! And their experience in the business is why I posed the question, is this an evolutionary jump…I’m willing to give them the benefit too, but I’m still going to sit back and watch.
Thanks for stopping by Kris!
Vee…….I think they’re only doing a short erotica a day–though you make a good point about exposure.
It’s like everyone out on the Internet is just looking to trounce all over the next epub no matter who is running it. Curiosity and questions is fine. I get that. I have some myself. But the full on venom they are getting is just bizarro.
I’m going to sit this one out for very good reason.
Jordan you don’t have to sit out (color me dumb LOL) but that popcorn looks good!
“So I don’t see how MS. Perkins would be diverting these books to Ravenous is some underhanded way”
Since I brought the concern as to whether or not Lori would have her agent’s hat on or her co-owner/editor’s hat on, when reviewing mss’ for submission, please don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t use the term ‘underhanded’, nor do I think I implied it.
It was a legitimate question, and you’ve answered it to my satisfaction, at least.
And with that, I too shall bow out of this discussion.
Kris wrote:
15K and under and 50K. That’s it. I don’t know any NY publisher that would consider 50K full-length. So I don’t see how MS. Perkins would be diverting these books to Ravenous is some underhanded way.
The problem with this logic is that MS. Perkins admitted on her blog that she was “editing down” some of her clients’ work to fit Ravenous’s word count guidelines. Now, these could be full-length books at she’s tried to sell elsewhere but had no takers for and this could be totally above-board. But it still bothers me, and if I were her client, it would bother me a lot more.
Plus, I would think she’d make more money for her clients and herself selling directly to traditional publishers.
But she’s not just editing for Ravenous–she’s a co-owner! And regardless of the size of her stake, she presumably stands to gain more financially from her stake in the company if it does well than from selling her clients’ work elsewhere. If she believes (as at least some of the authors she’s sold there seem to) that this new publisher is going to blow the competition out of the water, she presumably believes there’s as much or more money to be made here than in traditional publishing. And if that’s the case, she absolutely has the incentive to divert her clients’ work there.
That’s not to say that she isn’t doing it with their best interests at heart. After all, if she believes this publisher will offer any particular offer the best possible deal, she’s got to believe she’s doing the best for them by selling them there. It’s just that I’m not sure she can be entirely objective given her financial interest ine publishing house.
Again, none of this is to say that this epublisher is doomed to failure or that MS. Perkins is doing anything inherently shady or wrong. Only that I find it slightly troubling…
Because once you start paying authors you need to pick them sparingly and will e-pubs stop publishing the “out-of-the-box” romances to print what sells? You know, like Big NYs, which could easily be another post.
Now that’s something to think about. Great point. The fact that most don’t does give them the freedom to buy what NY won’t. If I were epubbed I think I’d probably opt out of the advance anyway.
Vanessa, I certainly didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. i was just taking what you had written and giving you what I heard. That there was suspicion or uneasy feelings with MS. Perkins’ involvement. I will completely and utterly claim “underhanded” was all my own conclusion based on what you wrote.
This is why comments/internet/email is such a tough way to have a conversation of this nature.
I hope you didn’t think my comment was an intent to ‘repackage’ your statement.
MS. Perkins involvement is interesting to say the least, but it’s not my business to worry about what’s going on with her cliients. I just hope they all know about this venture and make their own decisions based on that.